The “Elephant” in The Room: Being a Conservative in a Family of Liberals

The table is set, the dinner filling the kitchen with a sweet aroma, the finest silverware and china is laid out, the memories of years past fill the room…

For most of us, we automatically envision the sentimental Hallmark image of a family gathering around the holidays, with generations all in harmony. Remembrances of the past, of the “good old days”, and looking toward a future of more fun memories yet to come. The whole family, aunts, uncles, cousins, in laws, all together plucked from their busy schedules to remind everyone of the value of family. Uncle Joe started his new business. Cousin Mary is settling into college. Aunt Lisa got some new clippings for her garden. Grandpa and Grandma came back from their bucket list luxury cruise. Seems like everyone’s got something new to share this year! However, reality can be quite the rude awakening from the idyllic scene you’re daydreaming…

There goes Aunt Susie again on how Trump will start the next nuclear holocaust! Cousin so and so is talking incessantly over the latest anti-Trump (insert cause here) rally and joined the Social Justice League on campus, and your in-laws are decrying all the “microagressions” they were “triggered” by this past week! Uncle Steve who’s a Black Lives Matter fan keeps accusing his brother, who’s a cop of being a racist, since “all cops are racist”, and everyone is angry it’s Thanksgiving, since it celebrates the genocide of the Native Americans, and is a “colonialist atrocity” that’s triggering! Not to mention, Mr. and Mrs. Snow(flake) have been invited over from next door, but feel uncomfortable at the lack of diversity amongst the gathering…

This may sound far fetched, but for many families, this is the reality! More and more conservatives feel “in the closet” as our society becomes more rampantly liberal. The 2016 election has divided many people in America, and almost like a second civil war, it can be brother against brother! So, what’s a conservative to do at a gathering that is majority liberal? The easiest path would be the wise advice to stay away from sensitive topics in mixed company, such as politics, however, not all circumstances are so easy to judge! What about that conversation about how all conservatives are backwards bigots who hate any social progress? Or the one where blatant propagandized lies that are obviously false are sworn as holy truth? One may be able to hold their tongue to keep the peace, but there’s only so far people can go, so many years of the same diatribes, before the urge to say at least something will spring forth! Better not to wait until you’re ready to explode! There should be nothing wrong with being allowed to put in an articulate view, or rebuttal now and then.

You see, the issue is not in itself, about how to one up your relatives in a family gathering political debate, but the double standard that often exists in such gatherings that the liberals are allowed to openly speak an opinion, yet it is often the conservatives that get told to hold their tongues and shut up! Why doesn’t the “no politics at dinner” rule apply equally to ALL parties? I can see, that in a majority liberal family, you are indeed the “outlier” or the “radical”, but if politics and social issues are “on the table” so to speak, why must conservatives be shut up simply becuase we hold the opposing view? It’s just another example of radical liberal double standards and hypocrisy! Is it fair that Uncle Joe can spew all the vitriol he wants about Trump and accuse you of “white fragility” while you are expected to shut up and take it to keep the peace? Is it fair that the family friend gets to grill you about “racial solidarity” or “internalized misogyny” because you’re a conservative of color or a woman?

It may be understandable, if one is super-humanly gallant, to stay out of the liberals sounding off in their intellectual echo chamber on their own, in fact, may be the most peaceful course of action, but direct insults to you personally should not be tolerated. That for me, is where the line is crossed. You can spew all you want about Trump causing nuclear war, you can whine about how “triggered” you are, or how you’re going to kneel for the anthem after dinner at the Thanksgiving football game, you can say any brainwashed hooey you want amongst your liberal comrades, but call ME a name? It’s on! I wouldn’t advise returning rudeness with rudeness and lowering yourself to vitriol yourself, but having an articulate comeback ready can outwit the most vitriolic of snowflakes, and even if it doesn’t, and they keep spewing hooey, you know you were the one who made the most sense! And it shows your class and intelligence to all who witness, even if they don’t say it.

If complete silence is not realistic for you otherwise, an articulate, intelligent, well researched rebuttal would be in order. Got the statistics wrong? The story isn’t straight? Tell them politely and professionally. The aim of the game is not always to convert and convince. That’s way too unrealistic considering the radical liberals! The aim is to present an intellectual challenge, a new unconsidered point, and to show others present opposition is not always hostile, or heated, but can be intellectual. You can’t ultimately control what others think or say, so don’t agonize over it. However, you do have control over how you present yourself in a debate, and show how articulate you can be.

When have we come to the point where we cast others out into the darkness simply because we disagree on politics? Why is everything about character and morality, and anyone with a different view is a bad person, not just a bad debater? Poor character is a whole other ballpark than poor logic! If we demonize our opponents, we close our minds to all the nuances, and facts of their view. Just because someone’s view is unpopular, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any merit, even if it’s not strong enough to sway you. I’m going to admit something: I have liberal friends too. I’m a social conservative, and am socially at odds with many of my liberal peers, acquaintances and friends. However, I can still be friends, and ground our friendship on mutually shared opinions, interests, and values. I’ll admit that while radical snowflakes are not friends of mine, moderate liberals who will listen to my points certainly can be 🙂 The thing is, the labels of “liberal” and “conservative” do not define us as a whole multidimensional person. I have some views that are more traditionally liberal (albeit a few with nuances). I like topics many liberals like too outside politics. If I alienated everyone who didn’t think as I do, I’d be one lonely person!  I’ll reach out and be allies with religious conservatives even though I’m not religious. I’ll connect with the secular community even though many are liberal. I just find our common ground, and leave the rest. Liberals, conservative friends open your minds to new ideas, and can be like any friend that you can hang with and have common interests. A spirited debate is not an argument if both sides can shake hands in the end. The same rules go for family, only the stakes are higher! You only have one family, and family ought to be cherished and the bonds nurtured, as no one will be there for you like family. A family divided is common now, but a sad, sad thing 😦

Overall, try to keep politics a forbidden topic at the table, but if it comes up, you have just as much right as anyone else present to speak your mind. A last but hopefully encouraging point is, experiments have shown such as the Asch experiment, that if even one person speaks up in the minority view, others will feel far more comfortable, and often have the courage to do so as well. Speaking out has another benefit other than for your views or yourself: it can give others the courage to “come out” and speak out too 🙂

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Share some of your stories of liberal lunacy over the holidays! What were some of the craziest things to happen at a family gathering in your family ? 🙂 Comment below…


  1. After reading the war of words between timefoolery42 and Reflectory I was a bit hesitant to offer my vapid definition of micro aggression but what the heck, here goes:
    Microaggression: When some jerk re-ended my VW Microbus in 1969.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Just for sh-ts and giggles watch the nightly- or should i say all day- news on a Spanish language channel -bring your own interpreter. I spend a great deal of time deconstructing the noticias falsas (fake news) for my 93 year old Colombian mother in-law who loves her country (The US of A) and President Trump while she resents, as she calls them the comunistas reporteros de nes. My family of in-laws who have been here for 40 years get it while a majority of garden variety Amerikans are little more the lemmings of the future. My apologies to lemmings everywhere.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Time and Space. If Americans aren’t really thankful for their blessings, then what is the point of celebrating? I ask the question because if politics is all we can talk about, we must not have had a very blessed year. Or maybe we did but didn’t realize it because we’re so consumed with the sound of our own voices. I suppose arguing and quibbling is part of our national heritage, but this is no great recommendation. Everyone likes to talk, hardly anyone wants to listen. Personally, I’d prefer to listen to people talking about their blessings, how the kids are progressing, amusing tales of the last family vacation. Plus, has anyone ever changed their minds about politics in the time and space of a thanksgiving dinner? No?

    Happy Thanksgiving to all …

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Interesting read! Microaggressions run rampant in today’s society. It’s unfortunate that they are so common. I just wrote a post about microaggressions in medical school, I would love for you check it out if you have the time!


    • You’re kidding, right? Sorry to put you off, but the idea of microagressions being something to be taken seriously is only a detriment to minorities and a hurdle to being taken seriously…. Many of these so called microagressions are mostly innocent misunderstandings as the person saying them never actually meant to be offensive or derogatory. Intentions do matter when you judge these things. Don’t confuse ignorance with malevolence.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I think you were correct to push back on this concept of micro-aggression. At this point in time, the subject is mere conjecture. There is no good science supporting the hypothesis, even if there is some basis for forming it. Until the science is in, I’m out on this topic.

        But since we’re on the topic, why do these studies only encapsulate micro-aggressive behaviors within the domain of the majority (white) race? If I go into a diner and a black waitress says, “What’chu want, white boy,” should I conclude that I’ve somehow stepped over the line in race relations? Do I leave her a tip? An unhealthy response to this sort of incident would be anger, depression, thoughts of suicide. A healthy response would be laughter.

        Biases exist in everyone. Some of this is racial, some ethnic, and some people hate spaghetti. Even if we assume that there is an employee on the third floor who doesn’t associate with any of the three minority employees in adjacent cubicles, how should the problem be remedied? Should the offended file grievances and get that person fired, simply because he or she prefers not to hang out? Better yet, why is this even a problem? Has our society become that controlling?

        It does occur to me to ask, though … what is wrong with aggressive behavior? If I say, “Good morning” to a colleague and he or she responds, “Piss off,” wouldn’t this be a worthwhile revelation? Forcing people away from who they really are cannot be a good thing. Raising micro-aggression to DEFCON ONE won’t change innate biases; if anything, it will only serve to make them worse.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. For myself … I find it “better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to spout and remove all doubts”
    And from (Linus?) the Snoopy strip: “… a soft answer turneth away wrath”.

    And from my own enduring marriage, those two words guaranteed to bring marital/other harmony:

    “Yes, Dear~!”

    Liked by 3 people

  6. My wife had mentioned she needed some snow boots, so I bought some and surprised her with them. She said they looked great and she loved them, but then immediately launched into “too bad you probably had to pay double what they’re worth thanks to Trump and his tariffs. I feel sorry for the poor Chinese kid who had to slave all day making these…,” etc.

    You know, all I really wanted was a “thank you.”

    Liked by 4 people

  7. Being a liberal in a conservative family I have to hold my tongue all the time. But not for any reason you’ve stated here. I have to hold my tongue because correcting typically “conservative” beliefs like “evolution is only a theory” necessarily involves pointing out that person’s abject ignorance—something that I don’t want to do to family members.

    Or here’s another one I’ve heard around the dinner table: “If the Big Bang really happened, why is it not in the Bible?” To correct such a fecund imbecility would require a discussion of the very nature of evidence and its relation to epistemology, something I don’t have the time or the energy to do in such a setting. And it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

    Another example I’ve had to hold my tongue over: “You can’t vote for Hillary, she’s MURDERED a bunch of people!” To correct such nonsense would require pointing out that person’s lack of discernment regarding the veracity of knowledge, their gullibility when it comes to conspiracy theories, and their susceptibility to confirmation bias.

    Again, there’s not really a nice way to accomplish these things. I’d rather have a peaceful dinner with loved ones and let them have their ignorance, excuse me, “conservatism is bliss”.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Finally, we agree on some things: evolution, the big bang theory, and keeping the peace! Have a great Thanksgiving free of derisive subject matter 🦃🦃🦃 Oh and just so you know for future comments, I’m an atheist 😂

      Liked by 3 people

    • Why do I get the feeling that this is more of a “Let’s get some digs in on Conservatives and pretend I’m talking about being a Liberal in a Conservative family!” sort of post? You could’ve simply said, “I disagree with them on politics and religious ideas”, and left it at that. But noooooo, you’ve got to trot out all the stupid things Liberals always think Republicans believe. Let’s take them one by one and shatter some of your idiotic myths, shall we?

      First off, Evolution. It’s called “The Theory of” for a reason. But it’s a generally accepted theory by all the Conservatives I know, and even the Pope has conceded that it’s very likely, and he believes as I do, that God intended it that way. It would certainly be a very boring world without all the color and variations out there of animals, plants and people that evolution creates. Btw, in case you didn’t know, it’s a rarely told truth that Darwin’s intention was actually to PROVE God existed and that He was the architect of such wondrous variety. So if you’re going to cruelly skewer your poor family over evolution, throw him on the spit with them.

      Second, the “Big Bang.” I personally believe that it IS in the Bible. In Genesis Chapter I Verse 3 reads:

      “And God said, ‘Let there be light,’”

      BOOM BOOM BOOM. Every depiction I’ve ever seen of the Big Bang shows exactly that, LIGHT spreading across the newly-created universe! Who’s to say God didn’t do exactly that in the creation of “the heavens and the earth”??? Maybe not me, but certainly not YOU.

      And finally, about Hillary…there’s a rather LONG LIST of people close to them who were either murdered or “committed suicide”. Let’s take at peek, shall we??

      1. James McDougal – Clintons convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
      2. Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
      3. Vince Foster – Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
      4. Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the Air Traffic controller commited suicide.
      5. C. Victor Raiser, II – Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
      6. Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “dear friend and trusted advisor”.
      7. Ed Willey – Clinton fundraiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
      8. Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
      9. James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
      10. James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater..
      11. Kathy Ferguson – Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
      12. Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancé of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancée, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound, also ruled a suicide, at the grave site of his fiancée.
      13. Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
      14. Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal, Mena, Arkansas, airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
      15. Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. She was pregnant at the time of her death.
      16. Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one-car accident.
      17. Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter, investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
      18. Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993, in his Washington DC apartment. He had just delivered a report to Janet Reno three weeks before his death.
      19. Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington ,Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
      20. Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death: Unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, naked body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
      21. Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
      22. Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council, personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.
      23. Barry Seal – Drug running TWA pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.
      24. Johnny Lawhorn, Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car hit a utility pole.
      25. Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
      26. Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fundraiser died March 1, 1994, when his plane exploded.
      27. Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
      28. Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, July 1988.
      29. Keith McMaskle – Died, stabbed 113 times, November 1988
      30. Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
      31. Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
      32. James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to natural causes”.
      33. Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
      35. Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
      36. Captain Scott J . Reynolds
      37. Sgt. Brian Hanley
      38. Sgt. Tim Sabel
      39. Major General William Robertson
      40. Col. William Densberger
      41. Col. Robert Kelly
      42. Spec. Gary Rhodes
      43. Steve Willis
      44. Robert Williams
      45. Conway LeBleu
      46. Todd McKeehan
      47. John F. Kennedy, Jr. Kennedy died in a plane crash along with his wife, Carolyn, and sister-in-law in July 1999. He was running for the same Senate seat Hillary ran for and was expected to win.

      That’s an AWFUL LOT of dead people who were once close to Killary and Slick Willie. If you want to stay blind and asleep, that’s your prerogative. And it’s your fake relatives’ right to look at that list and let it sink in that SOMETHING there is not right. If you can ignore it and tell yourself faerie tales that Wild Bill and Calamity Hill aren’t up to their necks in it, go for it.

      If your dream family actually existed, which I’m pretty sure they DON’T, it disgusts me how very little love, understanding and compassion you show towards them. If they disgust you so very much, why don’t you just cut them off like you did all your Conservative friends the day after Trump won, in a fit of loser pique?? Why don’t you spare them your supercilious, pernicious and pompous attitude and leave them to have a happy holiday without seeing you constantly rolling your eyes at them or muttering insanely under your breath??

      Btw, if they ARE real, have you ever considered that maybe they say all that crap just to set you off? Trust me, people know when they’re being patronized and maybe they whip out all that fundamentalist crap in hopes you’ll eff off and let them celebrate in peace and, above all things, HARMONY.

      In summary, your little performance here is simply typical of godless, lying, hypocritical Liberals like you and I’ll know not to expect actual, careful thought and analysis from you in future.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Btw, in case you didn’t know, it’s a rarely told truth that Darwin’s intention was actually to PROVE God existed and that He was the architect of such wondrous variety.

        Citation please. I have a personal library of more than a thousand science and history books. I also know how to use the Internet. I haven’t come across this. Oh wait. I already know the answer: it’s another “christian” myth.

        And finally, about Hillary…there’s a rather LONG LIST of people close to them who were either murdered or “committed suicide”.

        The same political family that couldn’t keep a blow job secret somehow SECRETLY MURDERED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE.

        You’re a special kind of stupid.

        And if you want to prove me wrong, citation. Evidence. EVIDENCE. You DO NOT HAVE IT. You have the fevered conspiracy theory imaginations of morons.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Awww, poor Rejectory! Don’t get all triggered because I called you out on what I’m sure rates as a “Great Idea” on the Short Bus to school. You lied and got caught in that lie. Don’t tear down my arguments when you didn’t offer any proof that YOU exist, much less your “Conservative family.” Nor did you offer anything of substance to refute anything I said except to lie (AGAIN!) about having thousands of science books and being able to use the Internet. If you had those things, you’d have whipped them out to refute and rebut my arguments. But you didn’t, and that makes you a DAMN LIAR three times over!!

        I’d have to find the research paper I wrote on Darwin 30 years ago at university to give you the exact book I got my info from as to Darwin’s beliefs. Instead I offer you the following websites you’re apparently too feeble-minded to find:

        Was Charles Darwin an Atheist?

        The Christian’s friend

        Religious views of Charles Darwin

        The Evolution of Darwin

        There are plenty more like this online if this short list doesn’t fry the outdated CPU in what’s left of your ravaged medulla oblongata. Btw, be glad “survival of the fittest” is no longer the law of the jungle because your soy intake is making you a real pussyhat and all that gangweed is quite obviously hindering your ability to type words into Google!! Both are cutting into your already severely hampered testosterone levels. On top of that, you’re “really lucky Dumbass ain’t fatal”, as my Old Man used to say.

        As to the list of “suicided” people, you don’t have to believe me – but this CBS affiliate in Vegas might have something to say about that:

        And here’s some more:

        The Clinton Body Count

        Clinton Dead Pool List

        Clinton Casualties

        OH, and here’s three new possible victims – I highly doubt these, though the latter two WERE involved with the soon-to-be deep-sixed Clinton Foundation:

        Jenna Jameson Floats Anthony Bourdain Death Theory: ‘Cross the Clintons…Get Suicided’

        Conspiracy Theorists Are Trying To Link The Deaths Of A Billionaire Canadian Couple To The Clinton Foundation And It’s Nuts

        And if you can’t read all that, here’s some videos that will spell it out for you:

        Yep, seems YOU are one “special” Demonrat imbecile. Perhaps you’d best check yourself into the hospital because your terminal case of TDS has clearly metastasized!! And I’m afraid you’ve taken your brain out and played football with it one too many times…

        Liked by 1 person

      • T Fool: Please name your firm and law specialty.

        I have to know because I would commit an ethics violation if I ever (unknowingly) recommended you to one of my clients if they needed an attorney outside my expertise.

        I’d have to tell them that they are retaining an attorney that lacks critical thinking abilities. They would be retaining an attorney that thinks that a person who couldn’t keep a blow job a secret, could also keep hundreds and thousands of murders and assassinations secret.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hey, Reject.

        W. T. F. ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT???

        Where did you get the idea I was a lawyer??? Not that I’m not flattered that you consider me to have a great legal mind, but how on earth did you reach such an unfounded conclusion!? Not that I don’t have experience as a Legal Assistant in the Oil & Gas industry, and was a Deputy Sheriff, but that’s the extent of my legal career. I can only presume you’re smoking crack if you’re hallucinating such things. Just say no to drugs, Defectory!!!

        Seriously, I’m rather disappointed in your inability to argue logically, or even shore up your own fallacious points with some sort of evidentiary support. You can’t even take my name and turn it into something clever!! All in all, you’re a piss-poor debater (I taught Debate for many years, as well) and your failure to rebut and refute my corroborating information is indicative of your being a typical Liberal who knows very little but what he hears on the Fake News Network or reads on a Twitter feed, and believes his feelings trump facts. Oddly enough, your virtue signalling is abysmal as well. If I were you (and thank God I’m not!!), I’d learn to quit telling stupid lies and learn to not just gather your own evidence before making an ass of yourself, but learn how to debate in a method that doesn’t resort to ad hominem insults. That’s a sign that you have NOTHING, know NOTHING, and are NOTHING.

        However, I thank you for the compliment of believing I’m an attorney!!! ☺️

        Liked by 2 people

      • I’m sure your extensive comment (with supporting facts), fell on deaf ears, yet here I am standing in awe and appreciation for your willingness to comment at such great length & detail. Many thanks & God bless you!

        Liked by 1 person

    • T fool,

      Thanks for demonstrating a penchant of conservatism: denial of facts. You’ve repeatedly called me a liar with no reason except that you don’t want to accept facts. Do you want a picture of my library to show my books? You’d just scoff and say I was lying again. You want me to prove my family? Not a chance I’d put such info on the internet.

      You’ll have to forgive the mix-up with “WalkAway James” below, it is easy to misidentify all uncritical thought as identical.

      1) I see you still have no citation for your claim about Darwin.
      The sources you’ve cited do not state that “Darwin wanted to prove God.” Either you’re reading comprehension is sub-par or you’ve a penchant for distortion. Regardless, it is irrelevant to the fact of evolution. My original point was to point out your mistake, not get into a theological debate.

      2) I see you still have no credible evidence for your conspiracy theory(ies) about the Clintons.
      I’ve come to view the “Clinton Murders” conspiracy as a marker for people who lack the ability or at least will to apply critical thought. There are so many cumulative layers of BS one has to believe to believe such nonsense that it is on par with Moon-landing hoaxers and Flat-Earthers.
      Let’s just go through a few besides the one I’ve already mentioned: that in order to believe in the Clinton murders conspiracy, one has to believe that a family that couldn’t keep a blowjob secret has kept numerous murders secret.

      The additional ones being:
      1) Even President Ignoramus who wanted to “Lock her up!” fixated on a real, even if wildly exaggerated violation regarding emails. You’ve gone pretty far down the stupid hole if you’ve gone beyond what Trump is willing to ignorantly spout.

      2) By believing such, you’re basically impugning the integrity of the entire law enforcement profession. These conspiracies have been circulating for decades. So you’re either saying that all of these incidents have been investigated by incompetent LEOs or that in all the separate cases, there’s been a concerted cover-up, piling another conspiracy on top of the first. Have you ever heard of Occam’s razor?

      So: you are more than welcome to hold on to your conspiracy theories. Such conspiracies are in vogue now with conservatives and republicans as the right slides further and further into epistemic hedonism. Don’t like a fact? Just invent a conspiracy theory to explain it away. (George Soros is always a good candidate.)

      But all of us who know how to think critically will just stand back and laugh at you as individuals and lament the fact that a major political party has slid so far into the stupidity of conspiracy theories that they’re only a tiny step away from becoming Flat-Earthers. (And given their opposition of “globalists” I guess many could be rightly, even if snidely, classified as such.)

      P.S. I almost missed this nugget from above:

      “It’s called the theory of” [evolution] evolution for a reason.

      It’s also “The theory of” gravity. And the Germ “theory of disease”.

      Like the “Clinton murders”, as a marker for lack of critical thought, I’ve come to see this belief regarding “theory” as a marker for a profound ignorance of science. If you don’t even know the difference between a colloquial definition and its scientific one, your views on science are are those of an ignoramus.

      Liked by 1 person

      • @ Reflectory – Excuse me for sticking my nose into your debate with “conspiracy” guy timefoolery42 but I am really curious about your lack of curiosity and of deductive reasoning.
        Isn’t it really weird that so many people who had dealings with the Clintons ended up prematurely ‘departed’ ? Their number is a big statistical anomaly. Shouldn’t anomalies of this magnitude be investigated ?
        Imagine a man claiming, 20 times within 25 years, damage compensation from his insurance company for his house being hit 20 times by a meteorite. I guess, your curiosity and vigilance not aroused, you would just give him the money.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Yo Defect,

      Thanks for demonstrating a penchant of Liberalism – if we don’t like a fact, we accuse the bringer of such facts of being a “conspiracy theorist” and then think that’s all you have to do to erase your requirement to provide proof of your lies. And you seem to be pruriently fixated on Bill Clinton’s sex life. You must be jealous that he’s not a Soy Boy and has an actual libido, something a cuck like you will never experience.

      Your whole show here is packed with lies. Your “Conservative” family doesn’t exist and you’re having a cow that I called you out on it. So here come all your ad hominem attacks AGAIN, which again only go to prove that you have NOTHING of substance to offer to back up your lies. I’ve offered you plenty of evidence of Darwin’s religious beliefs, and I’m not going to go digging for a paper for one book source on it just to please you. But yeah, I wanna see a pic of your VAST science library because I know that’s the BIGGEST LIE. If you had, you wouldn’t have been so caught off guard to find out Darwin wasn’t an atheist.

      You can throw out all the conspiracy theories you want and try to say I and other Conservatives believe them, but you’d be stupidly, insanely wrong. I merely pointed out to you WHY your fake family might think something is strange about how many have had dealings with the Clintons and turned up dead. How many people do YOU personally know that have turned up dead for reasons other than illness? I can’t list more than ten funerals I’ve been to in all my 52 years. Anyone who literally is a critical thinker would have to look at that list and at least wonder. But a shill like you enjoys blindly following the DNC and espousing whatever they tell you. For example, two weeks ago you were probably in your Echo Chamber telling everyone what Jim Acosta told you – that there was no caravan and if there was, it was thousands of miles away. Never mind they’re obviously in Tijuana as of last week, you think they’re still somewhere around Mexico City!! So you yourself have bought into many a CNN-borne conspiracy theory, so maybe you ought to cut those flat earthers a break because they’re only as retarded as you are with your “fake caravan” and your fake “Conservative family”.

      Btw, your numbering system is flawed. 1, 2, 1, 2??? 3 and 4 follow 1 and 2 in the real world. Where the hell did you learn to count??

      Ah, it’s fun poking at you and watching you jump. And it’s hilarious to know you praised my legal sense then realized you’d jumped off your own ship, so you’re trying to paddle to shore using a broken oar. It’s too late. You’ve already set it out there that I’m a far better thinker and arguer, with far better research skills than you, AND I don’t tell stupid lies that get me caught. Just admit you’re a lying bag of scum and we’ll all know to ignore your little four-year-old temper tantrums in future. Instead we’ll just put a fresh diaper on you, stick a binky in your stupid face and leave you to rot in your cot of lies.

      Liked by 2 people

      • T fool and LoR:

        I’m sorry you both lack the wherewithal to realize that two logically separate lists would each be numbered separately. Or do you both make lists like the following?:

        Things T Fool doesn’t know:
        1) What the ad hominem fallacy means.
        2) The scientific definition of theory.
        3) How to think critically.

        Things T Fool can’t recognize:
        4) The irony of complaining about “temper tantrums” while SCREAMING IN ALL CAPS that I’m a liar (without the slightest proof).

        Character traits T Fool lacks:
        5) Self awareness.

        See, myself, I would have went [(1,2,3), (1), (1)] because it gives you a total of each discrete group, but I numbered it like you guys apparently would do it to illustrate the point.

        T Fool,

        Your whole show here is packed with lies. Your “Conservative” family doesn’t exist

        That’s fine if you believe that. It just adds one more to the myriad of false beliefs you have.

        So here come all your ad hominem attacks AGAIN, which again only go to prove that you have NOTHING of substance to offer to back up your lies.

        There you go mentioning “ad hominem” again. Show me where I’ve committed the ad hominem fallacy. Oh, wait, as with most other dilettantes of logic you’ve conflated “ad hominem” with “name-calling” (while ironically screeching that I’m a “cuck” and a “liar”). LOL

        Here’s you free lesson in logic: calling someone a name doesn’t constitute the ad hominem fallacy. Only when using that attack to discredit their argument does it become fallacious.

        One of the most fundamental distinctions in logic is that facts are either true or false and arguments are either valid or invalid. So to apply the title of an argument “ad hominem” to a factual claim, like, for example “T Fool is a fool” is to advertise to the world you have no idea how to think logically because you cannot even make one of the fundamental distinctions.

        And I thought you mentioned you taught debate? Hmm…. very curious that you don’t know this.

        If you had, you wouldn’t have been so caught off guard to find out Darwin wasn’t an atheist.

        I wasn’t caught off guard by that as I never claimed he was. You claimed that Darwin tried to “prove God” by his work and you are still wrong about that.

        And you seem to be pruriently fixated on Bill Clinton’s sex life.

        I’m not “pruriently” fixated on this. I keep bringing it up because it’s a memorable and striking example of the stupidity of the Clinton Murder Conspiracies. But be proud T Fool, for not only can you believe six impossible things before breakfast, you believe that a family that can’t keep a blowjob secret can keep the secrets of countless murders. Good job.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Awww, Deject, you actually had to look up “ad hominem” and took me to mean “name calling”, didn’t you?? 🤣 How CUTE!! An ad hominem argument actually goes after the character of a person. You tried to paint all Conservatives as religious fundamentals, conspiracy theorists, etc. That’s what I’m referring to. Me calling you a “cuck” is simply name-calling, and calling you a “liar” is a proven truth. You still haven’t offered up anything as far as evidence to back up your bull. I’m going to quit asking for it because you obviously don’t have any, and your skills with Google are pretty scary and sad if you consider that most Snowflakes like you grew up with a computer monitor as a babysitter.

      Tell you what, you start keeping your stupid, bigoted, abusive and divisive rhetoric to yourself and I won’t have to spank you further. Now go kiss your non-existent Conservative mother and beg her forgiveness for you being a disrespectful little cuck to her and her family.

      Liked by 2 people

      • T Fool,

        It’s apparent from your previous posts that you didn’t know what constituted the ad hominem fallacy until I explained it yo you. Your very words demonstrate it. You got called out on it and reverted to another fallacy: tu quoque.

        Such an incompetent performance casts serious doubt on your claim of formerly “teaching debate.”

        and calling you a “liar” is a proven truth.

        So your standard of “proven truth” is synonymous with “that which I think to be true because it fits the ‘conservative’ narrative.” I knew that–given your epistemic standard is so low as to admit idiotic conspiracy theories. But thanks for demonstrating it.

        Anyway, you keep wanting me to “prove” my family is conservative. And how exactly would I do this? Post personal information? Facebook links? No thanks. I’d post pictures of my library if this were disqus. WordPress doesn’t have an image option. I’ll let you wallow in your false beliefs. Some people aren’t worth correcting. Incorrigible ignorance is a moral failing I’ll happily allow others to indulge in.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hey Perfunctory,

        Big question for you: Did you actually READ the definition of the “ad hominem fallacy”? Because I just realized you actually have no clue!! 😂

        Admit it, you saw the word “fallacy” and, after first erroneously thinking it had something to do with “fellatio” (my God, you’re obsessed with blow jobs!), you decided that meant that there was no such thing as an “ad hominem” argument. Let me enlighten you:

        It is called a “fallacy” because a character attack is not an actual argument or even evidence. It’s what losers do when they’re challenged and have nothing to offer, so they attack their opponent’s character instead. But it’s a load of hogwash, just like you. From your fake family to your supposed library of “thousands” of books, your entire existence here thus far has been fallacious!! In fact, you really ought to rename yourself “Ad Hominem Fallacy” because it’s your go-to fallback position when you’re losing an argument. It’s what you did the minute you had the chance to label your fictitious relations as Fundamentalists in an attempt to insult Lady, who is an atheist, and you did it again when I proved you are a liar and had nothing with which to create an actual, cogent argument to refute my evidence. And you will resort to it again after this reply because you still have no research skills, no library full of “thousands” of books, and no Conservative family.

        You can enumerate all the insults you want but they really just say more about you than me, don’t they? As we all know, Libtards love to project! Anything you accuse us of is pretty much everything you’ve displayed here. At least you’re honest about that!

        Now, go look up “ad hominem fallacy” again and get Google to read it to you as you obviously don’t know how, or you would’ve never made such a complete ass of yourself thinking it doesn’t exist. 🙄

        Liked by 2 people

      • T Fool,

        Thank you. No really. Thank you demonstrating that you don’t know what the ad hominem fallacy means. Thank you for demonstrating once again that you don’t know the basics of logic: namely the difference between a factual claim and an argument. I even explained it to you above and you still doubled down, digging that hole deeper.

        Here: I’ll break it down Barney style for you:

        1) If I were to say “T Fool is a fool” this is a factual claim. It can either be true or false but it cannot be a fallacy because there is no reasoning involved.

        2) Only if I were to say “T Fool is a fool, therefore what she says is false” would I be committing the ad hominem fallacy.

        Now to recap: You accused me of committing the ad hominem fallacy when I had simply made a claim as to your lack of intelligence (1), demonstrating you don’t know the basics of logic and certainly not what constitutes the ad hominem fallacy.

        But dilettantes who don’t understand logic, like yourself, conflate name-calling with the ad hominem fallacy because they only very superficially understand what they are talking about. But they know if they say “ad hominem” it makes them sound logical and so they say it.

        Given this, your demonstrated incompetence, I have a very hard time believing that you taught debate (well maybe K-12 and as a subject area you were never formally educated in).

        Moving on to your continued assertion that I’m lying about my family and my home, I invite you to “prove” who your family is and what is in your home. Go ahead and post all that personal information on the internet for everyone to see Oh? You don’t want to do that? Well, by your “reasoning” that makes you a *imitating T Fool* PROVEN LIAR!!111!!

        And lastly, the assertion that I’m “obsessed with blowjobs”: As I explained before, it is nothing of the sort as it is simply the stark comparison device to draw attention to the abject stupidity of the Clinton Murder Conspiracies. Couldn’t keep a BJ secret but can keep secret countless murders and assassinations? You couldn’t attack the comparison on its own grounds and so you have to divert to what? Oh! Attacking me! What was it you said about the ad hominem fallacy being the last resort of the loser?

        (I’ll refrain from stating that comparison in the future because I know it triggers you and sends you into paroxysms of rage because it lays bare the stupidity of a conspiracy theory you believe. And I don’t have a safe space to offer you.)


  8. Ooo… So much to think about in this post!

    I have to say, as a Canadian, it is pretty amazing to see how different it is for you guys; especially around Thanksgiving – and not just because you celebrate it a month late. 😉 We don’t have a major election every 2 years. It seems like the US is in almost constant campaign mode. Doesn’t it be exhausting? We have a federal election every 4 years, and the amount of time to campaign is very limited. At most, something around 90 days, and that’s very unusual. The minimum, once an election is called, is 30 days to campaign, if I remember correctly. We don’t have a congress, and don’t elect our senators (though provinces can elect their senators, only Alberta has ever actually done it). Also, we have more parties to vote for; the biggest are the Liberals and Conservatives, but there’s also the New Democratic Party (they used to be a communist party), the Greens and, in Quebec, the Bloc. Then there are all the little parties that fall on both the right and left political spectrum. So, in general, politics is just not as big a part of our lives, it’s not quite so polarized between 2 sides, and just not as big a topic during the holidays.

    Unfortunately, that’s been changing. What happens to you in the US affects us here. I’ve noticed it start to be more divisive during the H Bush/Clinton/W Bush years, with a lot of parroting of the leftist propaganda. Then it skyrocketed during the Obama years. When Stephen Harper was elected as PM, many lefts were wailing and gnashing their teeth over how we’d elected Bush’s mini-me, and everyone was expecting same sex marriage laws to be reverse and abortion to be made illegal, and the planet was going to burn from us not throwing money at climate change. Obama had a lot of vocal disciples here in Canada, and that’s when the double standard really started to kick on, much like you are describing. As bad as it was, it wasn’t as bad as when Trump was elected (after we elected our current accidental prime minister – and US based special interest groups spent a LOT of money to make sure that happened!).

    I don’t see it as much during the holidays, specifically, but I do see what you are describing going on a lot in our media, which is severely biased towards the left. Our national public broadcaster is practically a campaign wing for the Liberal party. The political left is much louder and willing to make noise, and I can see a huge influence from the US in this. However, since our own vacuous PM was elected, and even more so since Trump was elected, conservatives here in Canada have become much more outspoken, and it’s absolutely flabbergasting the leftists. Many are so immersed in their echo chambers, they have literally never encountered someone who dared to hold a different viewpoint before and actually *gasp* actually speak out about it without being ashamed of being conservative. To them, “conservative” equals racist, bigot, homophobe, islamophobe, sexist old white dude. To discover that one of their “closeted” friends is actually a conservative and *proud* of it is just more than they can handle. It’s absolutely fascinating to watch the melt down, in a sad and horrifying way.

    In my own family, we’ve actually got “closeted” liberals but, unfortunately, the “conservatives” tend to be of the sort that give conservatives a bag name. They are just as shocked to have someone disagree with them as the leftists. I’ve been accused of being a liberal/leftist, many times, for standing up to them (even if I agree with the core point they make, I will not go along with the racism or bigotry that can accompany it). So I get it from both sides!

    In my experience, whether it’s the majority of leftists the a minority of rightists that I see here, neither of them want to hear actual data, facts or evidence, and they certainly don’t want rational debate. They just want their POV validated by the world, even by force of law, if they can swing it! No debate allowed. Our very thoughts much be brought in line with theirs.

    And that’s getting rather scary.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Sad…I would hope conservatives would be better, but I guess anyone can have a closed mind 😦 I want all voices able to feel heard and considered, which much of the Left in the US does not allow in far greater numbers…

      Liked by 2 people

      • Wow, Lady, I was just going to offer a quick note of Thanks for your Blog, not realizing the real “Blogs” are in the comments. Geez, sorry, I’m not offended by the suggestions we all need to stop walking around with a literal chip on our shoulder. People of both parties seem so full of genuine distaste for the other, I question how we can enter the same room with one another, much less sit down and eat a meal, with out insults and all out shouting war. I found the original Blog insightful and witty. Thanks Lady! I can also report my Thanksgiving meal was w/9 immediate family members and not word of religion or politics was uttered. No one left mad, sad, or at war. It was lovely as is our family. No, we are definitely not all conservative or liberal, but a loving mix of both. With respect and admiration for each other & our individual views. A real Dysfunction Junction, from what I’m reading in the comments! Yes that was a snarky remark, and it felt great to say out loud.

        Liked by 2 people

    • I am a (legal!) immigrant to Canada and I actually think Canada has way more elections way more often than the US, and they happen at the drop of a vote of No Confidence! I have never been able to quite embrace the workings of parliamentary government or understand why a PM can end up in charge for way longer than any American president!! I’m not saying it’s a bad system cuz it obviously works for Canada, but it blows my mind that a vote of No Confidence can be taken at any time of the year and suddenly we’re thrown into an impromptu election, and that the PM is chosen by the winning party, not by election. I’m afraid it’s quite foreign to a person who’s used to elections every two years and has voted directly for the presidency!!

      Liked by 4 people

      • Technically, when we have a federal election, we have 388 elections happening, all at once. The party that wins the most seats, that party’s leader becomes the PM. The PM is just another Member of Parliament (MP) – and it’s possible for the party leader to loose their own riding and still end up PM! The PM must be an MP, so when that does happen (rarely), typically another MP will give up their seat, and the party leader becomes the MP for that riding. The problem with that is, there are so many more ridings in some provinces then others, it means that the East controls the West – and Quebec can end up determining who our PM is, even if all of the Western provinces vote the opposite way. Heck, even with being such a huge country, with so many time zones, the Eastern provinces can vote in our new federal government before polls in BC are even closed. Very frustrating!

        I wish it were easy to have a vote of no confidence. Then maybe we could have gotten rid of our idiot PM when he first got in trouble with the ethics commission.

        But that’s federal. Provinces, of course, have their own elections for Premiere, and then there are the local municipal elections, but I think the US has similar for each state, with Governors instead of Premieres. Unless something usual happens, we have one federal election held every 4 (at most, 5) years.

        Liked by 3 people

  9. I guess I was lucky that my entire immediate family have always been Conservative, but it gets a bit hinky when my cousin Sonny comes around. He’s a rabid Demonrat who thinks he’s open-minded, yet he certainly dislikes blacks!!! He disgusts everyone around him with his abject racism – for example, he had a black poodle once that he named “Dirty” which was short for “Dirty White Boy” because his dog CAN’T be African-American!! 😳🙄 We don’t even bother arguing with him because he’s so ridiculous and disgusting. Plus, he’s so self-involved to the point that he doesn’t have conversations, he has lectures. I don’t know how many times I’ve tried to reply to him only to have him quickly talk over me and squelch me. He’s not interested in anything but talking about himself and his life and forget anyone else might want to do the same.

    I have to agree with Teutonick – Conservatives have kept quiet for way too long, hoping against hope that these idiots will wake up and see what abject dividers they are actually being while accusing us of such. We have got to start standing up to these bullies because they’re getting bolder every time they see us fold because we don’t want the embarrassment that comes with having to defend ourselves against labels we don’t deserve. We’re going to have to say, to hell with it and defend ourselves, even if it destroys Thanksgiving. There’s nothing noble in letting people – especially your own family – kick you around politically and make abjectly false statements about you and others who think like you. If we don’t, these idiots are just going to keep pushing it and pushing it until all-out war breaks out, either on the home front or elsewhere. It’s time to stand up and stop taking crap for the sake of keeping the peace because if we don’t, there never will be peace again for any of us. Or turkey and dressing.

    Liked by 3 people

  10. I think one of the biggest problems that we face is that conservatives place too much importance on “getting along”. Liberals are more than willing to confront, and conservatives often want to “take the high ground”.

    Liberals have managed to shut conservatives down on the internet, in academia, and on the streets. Now they are trying to do it on our own homes.

    I say we should not fear confrontation, but seek it. The home is our last place to make a stand, and avoiding a confrontation just to “get along” is pure cowardice.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. My white brother in law married a black gal from Dallas. I was there at thanksgiving the week of the wedding. I was a bit more conservative in my views at the time, but all they did the entire time was bash Bush and whites. Lol. It was a good time for me to be quiet. They acted as though I wasn’t even there. It was already a loud household. I enjoy a more quiet setting. I’m pretty sure if I’d spoke up and said I voted for Bush, the USGS would have seen tremors on the Richter Scale.

    Liked by 3 people

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